Gaudiya Math Split Post-1937 - Discussion of Finn Madsen's Article

Please comment on Finn Madsen's article here.

I found the most interesting new information the exact reasons for the court cases, as well as the fact that Kunja Babu was not a member of the Governing Body. I had always thought he was.

There is, of course, much more to know, but at least we have more exact dates and stuff.

While reading, this thought comes to mind:

HOMO HIERARCHICUS (AD ABSURDAM?)

!*?*!

Which also reminds me of Kenneth Burke's "Definition of Human":

Being bodies that learn language
thereby becoming wordlings
humans are
the symbol-making, symbol-using, symbol-misusing animal
inventor of the negative
separated from our natural condition
by instruments of our own making
goaded by the spirit of hierarchy
acquiring foreknowledge of death
and rotten with perfection

A really valuable contribution from Finn. I appreciate it very much. Finally the whole picture of the puzzle put together. Amazing after being kept in the dark for so long. Individual Maths follow the cover-up policy of never telling the whole thing.

What I miss at the moment, is the background info about the publication of that book which, I thought, made Ananta Vasudeva (Puri) leave his position and take the white dress. I thought the white dress meant babaji vesh!? Maybe this was not so in his case.

Who of the big shots took babaji vesh, and how did it affect the destabilisation process of the GM? Is not one aspect of the hatred (of the one's staying back as sannyasis) towards the babajis rooted in this additional input into destabilisation?

Years back I was kept under the impression that it was so dangerous to go to Radhakund because of the possibility to meet a nice babaji while taking a bath there, because then one could find out the whole truth about the GM and its scandals and cover-ups. So who are those former GM-members who became babajis who would have been so dangerous to meet?

During a seminar called "The history of the Gaudiya Math" Bhakticaru Swami told the story in the following way: Ananta Vasudev was made the next acharya of the GM - even though BSS never said he or anyone should be that - but later he escaped with a woman and the jewels of the Deities, causing great scandal and chaos. Any facts pro or contra?

Madrasi Baba, who was an eye-witness, told me that Puri Maharaja (AV) lectured for long sessions about the Sandarbhas in Bombay in the 1940s, explaining the GM have no parampara, then he told his disciples that there is no real sambandha between them, so they were free to take diksa in a genuine line. He then renounced his saffron sannyasa, pronouncing it to be null and void, and got married. I heard nothing about jewelry.

QUOTE(nabadip @ Apr 27 2004, 06:42 AM)

So who are those former GM-members who became babajis who would have been so dangerous to meet?

Yes, this is great stuff from Finn. Groundbreaking, even, for me at least. It's a strange thing to see so much animosity and motivated behavior, as if Vaisnavas are damned the moment they attain positions or property. It's nothing new in terms of religions the world over but the briefness and intensity of this are extraordinary.

Somewhere I have read recently that Ananta Das Baba is related to Puri Das Maharaja/AV. Is this correct? (I'll have to jog my memory for the source of that.)

(In response to Advaita's post.) I also heard something similar from a godbrother of mine, who was a great admirer of Puri Das, about these Bhakti Sandarbha lectures. Some of them were actually published and I remember reading one and finding them to be some of the most intellectually stimulating Vaishnava reading I had encountered to that point. These books are unfortunately quite rare, and if anyone sees them, he should immediately make a copy for posterity.

In fact, there is no doubt that the early Gaudiya Math attracted some brilliant men. As usual, it was hard to keep the smart guys inside an organization that values loyalty and homogeneity above all.

From Madrasi Baba's biography:

In 1943 he travelled with his son and Haridas to Delhi, where they were invited to attend a series of lectures on Sri Jiva Gosvami's 'Bhakti Sandarbha' given by Puri das Maharaj. It went on for up to five, six hours daily, nearly for a month and a half and continued in Mathura for about twenty days, having originally started in Sri Mayapur at the rate of three classes daily for a period of four and a half months. As a great VaishNava and an accomplished Sanskrit scholar, Puri das Maharaj was lecturing with profound theological sensitivity, finding it almost impossible to check his deep religious emotions, to the point of having his tears completely drenching his chest. At the concluding session he announced that he was relinquishing all of his followers to any of the existing authentic uninterrupted (parampara) Gaudiya Vaishnava hereditary spiritual lineages of which they had the choice to affiliate themselves properly in disciplic succession. He then got married, had a daughter and a son and dedicated the rest of his life in transliterating 62 books of the Vrindavan Gosvamis from Sanskrit to Bengali, publishing them for free distribution to the most important pandits of India.

When Krishna Das and Hari Das returned to Bombay, the latter was transferred by his company (Metro Goldwyn Mayer) to New Delhi, where he assumed the post of assistant manager. He used to spend his weekends together with his wife and son in Mathura. In 1944, Krishna das resigned from his job and also left Bombay to arrive in Mathura, together with his mother, wife and son, on Saturday, 9th of April, at 5.p.m. He was then engaged in receiving visiting pilgrims related to the Gaudiya Math mission at the train station, and to guide them to the different main holy sites of Mathura. Later, by the agency of Hari das he started working for the Metro Goldwyn Mayer cinema in Agra. At the beginning he lived alone in a rented room situated just in front of the cinema, but after finding a bigger residence, his mother, wife and son came from Mathura to live with him. As his residence was far away >from his place of work he reached it by bicycle.

Hari dasa's superiors wanted to promote Haridas to the post of manager of the company, but instead of accepting the promotion he handed in his resignation, rather choosing to entirely dedicate his life to spirituality. He then moved with his family to Mathura, where he assisted Puri das Maharaj as a secretary and private cook. In 1945, as his wife passed away due to tuberculosis, leaving him their small son Narayan, he then married the last of her three younger sisters. In 1946, Krishna dasa's wife also passed away, due to round-worm in Agra's public hospital. The brother of a man whose wife also died in the next bed transported the two corpses with his truck to the Yamuna, where the widowers consecrated them after reciting religious prayers. Having been informed of the bereavement, Krishna dasa's maternal uncle came to Mathura with the idea to take Krishna dasa's son Mukunda with him to Kerala and raise him there, but as his sister was too desparate they decided to leave him in her care. In 1948, after she passed away in Mathura, 6-year old Mukunda was brought to Bombay by his father, from where the maternal uncle took him to Kerala. Krishna das then returned to remain with Puri das Maharaj and assist him in his work. As Puri das Maharaj moved his quarters to Vrindavan Krishna das followed him and started living in Radha Raman Ghera as a neighbour of Vishvambhar and Krishna Chaitanya Gosvamis. This gave him the chance to daily attend the seven arati-ceremonies of Sri Sri Radha Raman. Puri das Maharaj stayed near Sri Sri Radha Raman Mandir for a while and moved to a room in Purushottama Gosvami's residence in Bankicha. During this period, Krishna das and his bosom friend Binay Babu travelled together to visit different sites in Vraja Mandal, like Kedarnath, Badrinath, etc.

In 1951, Puri das Maharaj decided to build a house at Ambika Kalna and entrusted the task to Hari das and Krishna das. They reached the place by train, bought a plot of land near Gauri das Pandit's Gaura-Nitai temple and had the construction work started. Hari das returned to Vrindavan after a few months, but Krishna das remained, continuing to supervise the work. During that period he used to bike almost everyday to Navadvipa and back, and at Ambika Kalna he regularly went and meditated at the samadhi (tomb) of the advanced bhajananandi saint Sri Bhagavan das Babaji. Because he daily read Chaitanya Bhagavat and Chaitanya Charitamrita in Gauri das Pandit's Gaura-Nitai temple room with a few listeners attending, and resided in Bengal, he narurally became familiar with the Bengali language. On one occasion he had the privilege to worship the Gaur Nitai deities for two days, substituting Their priest.

Three years later, in 1954, Krishna das was back in Vrindavan. Then, in 1957, he moved to Barsana, where he lived at different places till 1959, and got the chance to associate with and render some services to the famous advanced saint Srila Sacinandan Das Babaji. Once, as the saint was brooming up and down the main stairs connecting the Larli Lal or Shriji Ka Mandir (the main temple) to the village, he stayed all the way behind him until he finished, so that the attracted crowd might not hamper him. In the meantime Puri das Maharaj passed away in Vrindavana, four days after Gaura Purnima of 1958, and his corpse was brought to Radhakund where he was given a samadhi (tomb). Krishna das lived at the samadhi, located in the vicinity of the local cremation ground, in the company of Sudarshan Das, for nearly four months. During this time he copied Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakur's book Sri Prema Samputa out by hand. On Gaura Purnima, 1959, the advanced bhajananandi saint Srila Sakhicaran Das Babaji, who belonged to the hereditary spiritual disciplic lineage of Srila Lokanath Gosvami (the first intimate associate of Lord Gauranga who was the first to be dispatched to Vraja by the Lord, along with Srila Bhugarbha Gosvami, in order to recover the lost holy sites), blessed him with diksha (spiritual initiation).

The book you are possibly refering to, Nabadip, is Sundarananda's discussion of the guru issue. Sundarananda was another one of the brilliant guys in the GM.

Good timing, Jagat. That's where I read it:

QUOTE

Hari das got diksha and bHekh from Sri Ananta das Babaji, the paternal cousin of Puri Das Maharaj and disciple of the advanced bhajananandi saint Sri Manohar Das Babaji of Sri Govinda Kund (Govardhan), who belonged to the spiritually hereditary disciplic lineage of Sri Advaita Acarya. Thus Hari das became known as Sri Haripada das Babaji.

http://www.madrasibaba.org/en/hagiography.html

This is another Ananta Das. The current Ananta das came to Braja much later, in the 1960s.

QUOTE(Advaitadas @ Apr 27 2004, 08:40 AM)

This is another Ananta Das. The current Ananta das came to Braja much later, in the 1960s.

Ah, yeah, guess I should have read the rest of the sentence--"disciple of the advanced bhajananandi saint Sri Manohar Das Babaji". My excuse for not reading that part attentively was that Haridas Sastri apparently attributes some Gaudiya Math connection to Ananta Das Baba and I put one and one together and got...

Was this earlier Ananta Das influential?

Very moving, this history about Puri das Maharaja. Unimaginably great, that service that he did, first all his editing and publishing in the GM, then his transliteration work of so many granthas, their free distribution, this high, very high, and absolute dedication to truth, to whatever price he had to pay himself. Someone that much engaged in the service of a first guru, and then able to leave, to do such service. I bow low to that. Joy Nitai.

Very touching also Krsna das' services, very sweet how he got to worship Gauridas Pandit's Nitai-Gaur (very special if one considers the "jealousy" with which the pujari watches over them), how he grows along his activities, to take diksha so much later. I keep wondering whether Krsna das babaji had closer ties to GM, or was this service to Puri dasji his only connection?

Okay, I found the answer:

QUOTE

Krishnan's brother got introduced into the japa (remembering, muttering, or chanting while counting on a rosary) of the 'Hare Krishna' maha mantra by Puri das Maharaj on the day after Gaura Purnima 1942, at the Gaudiya Math mission's Calcutta-temple and given the name Hari dasa. When he returned he requested Krishnan to meet with Puri das Maharaj who had left Calcutta for Mathura. Krishnan then joined him there at the Gaudiya Math mission's temple which was situated just in front of Sati Burj (at Vishram Ghat), was similarly introduced by him in the japa of the 'Hare Krishna' Maha mantra and given the name Krishna Das.

QUOTE(Jagat @ Apr 27 2004, 08:13 AM)

From Madrasi Baba's biography: In 1943 he travelled with his son and Haridas to Delhi, where they were invited to attend a series of lectures on Sri Jiva Gosvami's 'Bhakti Sandarbha' given by Puri das Maharaj. It went on for up to five, six hours daily, nearly for a month and a half and continued in Mathura for about twenty days, having originally started in Sri Mayapur at the rate of three classes daily for a period of four and a half months. As a great VaishNava and an accomplished Sanskrit scholar, Puri das Maharaj was lecturing with profound theological sensitivity, finding it almost impossible to check his deep religious emotions, to the point of having his tears completely drenching his chest. At the concluding session he announced that he was relinquishing all of his followers to any of the existing authentic uninterrupted (parampara) Gaudiya Vaishnava hereditary spiritual lineages of which they had the choice to affiliate themselves properly in disciplic succession.

The concluding lectures must be ~1951 to tally with Finn's dates. The taking of sannyasa (from a b'cari?) seems strange if he already had doubts prior to 1948.

Is there any indication of specific persons outside Gaudiya Math who influenced Puri das Maharaja's action, e.g. is his staying near Radha-raman an indication of some kind of connection there? Is it known/suspected that he took diksa (again)?

A friend interviewed one Radha Raman Goswami, who said that Puri Das would have taken initiation from one of the Goswamis there, but that he was under oath to not reveal his name.

There is also one babaji at the Gauradham colony who lays claim for having given diksha to Puri Das. Seemingly many of Puri Das's followers have accepted that, as much of Puri Das's assets have been turned over to him. The name of this baba escapes me right now.

Then again, others say that he never received new initiation from anyone.

QUOTE

The name of this baba escapes me right now.

I cannot imagine that such a person would still be alive. The only one who could be that old in Gauradham is Brajasundar Das Baba, but then Puridas would also have been chanting Sri Krishna Caitanya Sacisuta Gunadham and blocked his ears when he hears the name Radha in Her own abode............

Yes him exactly. That's the legend going around. The premises on which they are building the new Gauranga temple, on the end of the parikrama road before coming to Radha Kunda, I recall hearing that's inherited from Puri Das,

I can vaguely recall Madrasi Baba saying something about this Gauradham sect in connection with Puridas now, but dont quote me on it.....

Are there any devotees who block their ears when they hear the name of Radha? Whats the reason behind that?

tara bhakta sange sada, rasa lila prema kathä,
ye kore se pay ghana-syama
ihate vimukha yei, tara kabhu siddhi nai,
nahi yeno suni tara nama (109)

"Anyone who associates with Sri Radha's devotees and speaks about Her rasa, Her pastimes and Her love, will attain Ghanasyama, but anyone who is against this will never attain perfection. Let us not even hear these people's names."

Prem Bhakti Candrika

Totally contrary to any siddhanta some proclaim Mahaprabhu to be the yuga avatara for this age and say that Krishna's worship is now obsolete. Makes one wonder why Mahaprabhu Himself sang krsna krsna krsna krsna krsna krsna krsna he?

Hm. Which sect is that? Or just some individuals?

They were discussed in one older thread. Can anyone remember which one it was?

Someone recently sent me this:

I am having a kind of "debate" with a specific teacher who is a very devoted follower and preacher of Gauranga's worship. He had started the following project: He takes some verses from the shastras that glorify Krsna, and simply changes the names from "Krsna" to "Gauranga." For example the famous "harer nama" shloka he changed to "gaura nama," arguing that since Krsna and Gauranga are one and the same, this is proper. Also many shlokas from the Bhagavatam he presents this way, changing the names.

I wrote to him and explained that as I see this is a kind of rasabhasa, because even though we all know that Gauranga and Radha-Krsna are the same, still, Their mood or mellow is different, so Their names are not interchangeable. I took the example when Mahaprabhu was debating with the mayavadis in Benares. Even though Gauranga and Radha-Krsna are the same, it would be disrturbing to say the Radha and Krsna were debating with Prakasananda in Benares, because it is a different lila, different rasa. He asked me to cite references from the shastras to prove that what he is doing is rasabhasa. I am not a scholar, I cannot cite shlokas in this regard, still, I feel that what I wrote was correct. What is your opinion? Can you quote some scriptural references to prove my statement?

Gauranga Namaiva Kevalam

Adapted from Shri Namashtakam by an unknown author.
The song is adapted from a song composed by Dravida dasa prabhu.

madhuram madhurebhyo 'pi mangalebhyo 'pi mangalam
pavanam pavanebhyo 'pi gauranga namaiva kevalam

Of sweet things, it's the sweetest you will taste at any time,
Of things that bring good fortune, it's good fortune's paradigm,
Of things that purify, it purifies most powerf'lly,
The Holy Names of Nityananda-Gauranga are surely all that be.

abrahma-stamba-paryantam sarvam maya-mayam jagat
satyam satyam punah satyam gauranga namaiva kevalam

From Brahma's realm atop the sky down to the lowly grass,
Illusion reigns in Maya-devi's treacherous morass,
The truth, the truth, the only truth: the Names of Nitai Gaurahari,
The Holy Names of Nityananda-Gauranga are surely all that be.

sa guruh sa pita capi sa mata bandhavo 'pi sah
siksayec cet sada smartum gauranga namaiva kevalam

He's the guru, he's the father, he's the friend most true,
And she's the real mother who most kindly teaches you,
To always chant and hear the Holy Name of Gaurahari,
The Holy Names of Nityananda-Gauranga Hari are surely all that be.

nihsvase na hi visvasah kada ruddho bhavisyati
kirtaniya mato balyad gauranga namaiva kevalam

Remember that our final breath may come at any time,
No matter if we're old and sick or in our youthful prime,
So young and old alike should chant the Name incessantly,
The Holy Names of Nityananda-Gauranga are surely all that be.

gaurah sada vaset tatra yatra bhagavata-janah
gayanti bhakti-bhavena gauranga namaiva kevalam

Lord Gauranga forever dwells wherever devotees,
Whose hearts are fixed on Him and free of all impurities,
Uplift their voices high and sing His Name in ecstasy,
The Holy Names of Nityananda-Gauranga are surely all that be.

aho duhkham maha-duhkham duhkhad duhkhataram yatah
kacartham vismrtam ratna gauranga namaiva kevalam

Alas! What sorrow! What great pain! The worst calamity-
For people to forget the Holy Name of Gaurahari!
Although the Name's a priceless gem, mere broken glass they see,
The Holy Names of Nityananda-Gauranga are surely all that be.

diyatam diytatam karno niyatam niyatam vacah
giyatam giyatam nityam gauranga namaiva kevalam

Just fill your ears, just fill them with the Name of Gaurahari!
Just chant the Name, just chant the Name with all sincerity!
Just sing the Name, just sing the Holy Name eternally!
The Holy Names of Nityananda-Gauranga are surely all that be.

trni-krtya-jagat sarvam rajate sakalopari
cid-ananda-mayam shuddham gauranga namaiva kevalam

It makes this world appear like bits of straw upon the ground;
It splendorously reigns supreme-divinity in sound;
It's filled with transcendental bliss and peerless purity;
The Holy Names of Nityananda-Gauranga are surely all that be.

Inspired to glorify the Holy Name of Gaurahari,
A certain sage composed this hymn in Sanskrit poetry.
I pray that those who read this lowly version made by me
Will chant the Holy Names of Nitai-Gauranga in ecstasy.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Song of the Glories of Gauranga’s Name

Adapted from Shri Shikshashtaka, the eight Sanskrit verses composed by the Supreme Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu Himself.

Sing Aloud, sing aloud Gauranga's Name in prayers,
That cleanses mind's mirror of sins' countless layers.
Chant aloud, O chant aloud Nitai Gauranga's sweet Names,
That rid life's fires and the fury of lusty flames.

Drink deep of the Fount of Gauranga's Name's might,
It is the supreme distributor of auspiciousness and golden moonlight.
Utter Gauranga, utter Gauranga, utter Nitai Gauranga's Names,
That enliven Nadia, Puri and Vraja's Holy Lanes………………1

Delve deep, delve deep in Gauranga's lovely Name,
It swells ecstasy's tide and sets pure love aflame.
Shout Nityananda, Shout Gauranga with all your might and main,
Then Nectar sure shall saturate your soul's innermost grain.

Cry Nityananda cry Gauranga, constantly aloud and bold,
Thus win over Gauranga and He will allow you in His fold.
Sing Nityananda, sing Gauranga - the two Enchanters of hearts sore,
They envelope the soul with Their love right upto the core.

O Lord Gauranga! Your powers full are imbued in Your Name,
Time, rules and clime, control not the chanting of Your Name.
So Mighty Kind Your Name is and I - horridly incurably blind!
Misfortunes sorely grind me and Your Love remains untouched by my mind…2

A drooping blade of grass ne'er raises its head,
Nor grumbles a little, when trod on its bed.
So let me be humbler than this grass blade,
And chant Nityananda-Gauranga aloud with tears' raid.

The tree offers all it owns to one who asks,
Tho’ itself e’er in drought, rain and sun basks.
It shelters all travelers from the scorching sun,
And ask naught in return for services done.

The heartless man plunders it of fruit and flow’r
Of bark and bough; and once for all fells it o’er.
To roof his house; he burns it! so heartless it sounds,
Man’s unending greed knows no bounds.
Yes, matchless is the tree in forbearance,
Pray give me pure devotion, patience, and tolerance…...............3

O Gauranga’s Name, free me of false ego and lust for name and fame,
Make me meek and humble, so that I can forever chant Your Name….4

O Lord Gauranga, lift this luckless slave stuck in the worldly mire,
Grievously tormented am I with countless calamities dire.
Pray give me space that a speck of dust would take,
On Your lovely Lotus Feet and Name, if only for pity’s sake….....5

When shall my eyes while uttering Thy Name,
Be flooded with tears and my mortal frame,
Be bristled with with the hair standing on end,
And to choke my voice in pure bliss, my feelings would tend…....6

O Lord Gauranga! A moment metamorphoses into a Deathless Age,
And tears gush out like rivers in rage.
Neglecting Your Name has cost me so much harm,
Now attachment to Your Name is my only charm……...................7

Let Him hug me, or crush me to pulp if He will,
Let Him reject me or by His absence kill.
But I will never swerve an inch from chanting Their Holy Name,
Nityananda and Gauranga, my Overlords will forever remain…....8

Prayer for composing Gauranga Nama Chintamani:

"With straw in our mood, in the mood of extreme humility and surrender and with prostrated obeisances, we constantly pray at the lotus of His Divine Grace Shrila Namacharya Haridasa Thakura Prabhupada who spoke the Hari Nama Chintamani to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu Himself at his Siddha Bakula Dhama residence in Shri Jagannatha Puri Dhama and to the lotus feet of His Divine Grace Seventh Goswami Shrila Saccidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura Prabhupada who realized, recorded this conversation and thus wrote the great literature Hari Nama Chintamani. We fervently beseech these two great personalities of Kali Yuga to grant us some minute taste and realization for the Holy Names of Nityananda and Gauranga (even a drop of mercy of These two supreme Holy Names is sufficient to drown the whole creation) so that we can compile, adapt and compose choicest and nectarean verses to establish the supreme paramount importance of chanting the Nityananda and Gauranga Mantrarajas in Kali Yuga."

Verse 3:
Adapted from Shrimad Bhagavatam 12.3.52:

krite yad dhyaayato vishnum, tretaayaam yajato makhaih;
dvaapare paricharyaayaam, kalaoo tad gauraanga kirtanaat.

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead Who can be achieved in Satya Yuga by prolonged solitary meditation on the transcendental form of Lord Vishnu in one's heart, in Treta Yuga by the performance of massive and very elaborate fire sacrifices as an offering to the Lord by very qualified brahmanas, in Dvapara Yuga by extensive and meticulous Deity Worship in the temple by very expert and pure brahmana priests, can be achieved in Kali Yuga by one and all from the lowest dog-eater to the highest and most advanced devotee simply by the performance of Gauranga Nama Sankirtana (japa and chanting of the Holy Names of Nityananda and Gauranga) in Kali Yuga."

Verse 4:
Adapted from Shrimad Bhagavatam 2.1.11:

etan nirvidyamaanaanaam, icchataam akuto-bhayam;
yoginaam nripa nirnitam, gauraanga naamanukirtanam.

"Gauranga Nama Anu Kirtananam i.e. constant chanting with great attachment of the Holy Names of Nityananda and Gauranga by following the mood, footsteps and instructions of the great Acharyas and eternal Associates of Their Lordships Shri Shri Nityananda Gauranga, is the only infallible, unerring, completely certain and surefire means of success and deliverance for one and all souls in Kali Yuga, including those realized souls who are completely free of all material desires, those who are desirous of all kinds of material enjoyment, those who want freedom from all kinds of fear, problems, doubts and insecurity in life and even for those yogis who are self-satisfied by the dint of transcendental meditation."

Also, this Swami is giving initiations into two mantras: "Gauranga" and "Nityananda", and instructs people to chant these two mantras in japa. As a proof he uses some quotes from Bhaktivedanta Swami where he says that chanting "gauranga" and chanting "radha-krsna" is equally good, and a quote from the CC where it is said that Sivananda Sena was chanting "gauranga" as japa. Is that okay to take some names of God and start to give initiations with them?

If I am not mistaken this is the work of Bhakti Ratna Sadhu Maharaj.

My answer was that I did not find it particularly harmful, as these are all citations related to the Holy Name. But I did find the metrical disruption (3-syllable "gauranga" for 2-syllable "krsna," etc.), and I also think it's doing things on the cheap to just substitute one word in someone else's writings like that. If you're so inspired, write your own stuff...

QUOTE

If you're so inspired, write your own stuff

I find it pretty offensive to mess around with others (often nitya siddhas') compositions. This is Swami Gaurangapada (Nayana Ranjan Das) who gives internet diksa in his own concocted Gaura-mantras, which he received from no one. apasampradaya breeds apasampradaya. If he is such a great devotee of Mahaprabhu, let him swallow this one:

ama prati yadi sneha thake sabakar; krishna nama vyatirikta na gaibe ar

Mahaprabhu told the Navadvip residents in Caitanya Bhagavata:

"If you all love Me so much, then sing nothing else but Krishna's name....."

Agreed, the breaking up of the meter is disturbing.

I fail to see the point in this. Why does he need to do such a thing?

That aside, I would not consider the examples you gave rasAbhAsa as such. However, for example the following would be rasAbhAsa:

vikrIDitaM vraja-vadhUbhir idaM ca goraH |

It should rather be:

vikrIDitaM nadIya-vadhUbhir idaM ca goraH |

But then, that breaks the meter again.

This person wants to have scriptural references to prove that he shouldn't mess up with verses from the zAstra, and he doesn't even know anuSTup-meter properly. Or should we appeal to the "even if imperfectly composed..."? Well, why tweak them in such a way as to make them imperfectly composed?

If I had written a series of heartfelt prayers, and then someone came up and made a cheap twist to it to suite his own taste, not even caring to adjust the meter properly, I would not be particularly happy about it. I find it hard to imagine anyone else would.

QUOTE(Advaitadas @ Apr 27 2004, 05:16 PM)

This is Swami Gaurangapada (Nayana Ranjan Das) who gives internet diksa in his own concocted Gaura-mantras, which he received from no one.

He has come up with the name Gaurangaism for his peculiar approach, see here. Weird.

QUOTE(Madhava @ Apr 27 2004, 05:51 PM)

However, for example the following would be rasAbhAsa:

vikrIDitaM vraja-vadhUbhir idaM ca goraH |

This would not work: you need to have gora in the genitive case, not the nominative. But then again, the genitive would be gorasya and that is bad news for the metre. We need to think of another name for Caitanya to use here...

By the way, wouldn't it be more correct to use the form gaura in Sanskrit? Is the form gora used in Sanskrit verses?

QUOTE

It should rather be:

vikrIDitaM nadIya-vadhUbhir idaM ca goraH |

But then, that breaks the meter again.

It is just as easy to write new verses as it is to change old verses while trying to obey the metre at the same time. It is also much more dignified.

Where did the last five posts go?

Posted by: Openmind Apr 28 2004, 06:22 AM

A famous GM acharya also suggests very often in his works that one should fully concentrate on Gaura-lila and then Govinda-lila will automatically manifest in due course of time. The only strange thing about it is that Mahaprabhu Himself taught everyone to chant Krsna Nam, to worship Krsna and to remember Krsna all the time. I guess He was transcendental enough to see if the world was not ready to worship Krsna, so why didn't He preach His own worship instead? Some say that this is due to His humility, but I cannot agree with that. Its like saying that even though a doctor has the best medicine that cures all but he is sooo humble he never gives it to anybody. The all-merciful Personality of God would not give a method to the world that is actually useless because nobody is fit to do it. Also, the Goswamis usually start their works with glorifying and praising Mahaprabhu, but 90% of their texts deals with Krsna-lila. Again, I do not think that the all-compassionate Goswamis would have wasted their precious time with writing books (that nobody is fit to read and put into practise)for their own entertainment. So Mahaprabhu taught the worship of Krsna to everyone and anyone, the Goswamis taught the same, still, some consider Krsna-bhajana a kind of privilege of pure devotees. Again, the ass-backwards logic: you are not fit to take the medicine unless you are perfectly healthy.

Posted by: Openmind Apr 28 2004, 06:30 AM
I can't wait to see someone coming up with the philosophy that he suddenly realized we are not even fit to worship Gaura-Nitai (quoting some sentences from the Folio, of course), what to speak of Krsna, so better forget everything and approach Jesus or someone else.

Posted by: Advaitadas Apr 28 2004, 06:58 AM
Just distribute books Prabhu - don't read them

QUOTE(Openmind @ Apr 28 2004, 08:53 AM)

Where did the last five posts go?

I suppose you read the server move thread under Announcements. If you didn't keep backups, I'll be restoring them sometime today from the old server.

Its okay, Madhava. Adwaita posted them all again. Thanks.

See this post for more information.

Openmind wrote:

QUOTE

My only comment is that I'll strongly advise you to use your discrimination.

Yours Finn

QUOTE(Elpis @ Apr 27 2004, 10:36 PM)

QUOTE(Advaitadas @ Apr 27 2004, 05:16 PM)

This is Swami Gaurangapada (Nayana Ranjan Das) who gives internet diksa in his own concocted Gaura-mantras, which he received from no one.

He has come up with the name Gaurangaism for his peculiar approach, see here. Weird.

First it was Gaurangism, then Gaurangaism. Now, Gauranga Dharma.

I'll admit that I was also concerned about his mixing-up of verses and was about to write to him about it, until I heard that someone else had already done so.

QUOTE

My only comment is that I'll strongly advise you to use your discrimination.

Yours Finn

Thank you, dear Finn, I will try my best.

I asked for facts because I heard two different stories. 1. AV left because he got disappointed, 2. AV left because he had fallen down with a woman (of course, the latter is the general idea in Iskcon/GM circles). Since I wasn't there at that time, I thought someone might meet some witnesses who could tell which version is closer to reality.

I have been with the eye witness Krishna das Madrasi Baba, who was with AV/Puri das in the 1940s, and who told me the historical sequence of him first being 'disappointed' with the sannyasa he got and then going to be married. I must say personally though, that a vow is a vow. Even though the colour of the uniform is forbidden in our Sampradaya, a vow is a vow......